tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post8063491375029505514..comments2024-03-05T13:51:24.898-07:00Comments on Spacefreighters Lounge : Hollywood vs. New York: What's the Disconnect?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post-90872854892413899152013-10-18T20:03:54.536-06:002013-10-18T20:03:54.536-06:00LOL PaulineLOL PaulineL. A. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01198035351359321392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post-64375971597492498612013-10-18T19:35:36.384-06:002013-10-18T19:35:36.384-06:00Don't you know it!Don't you know it!Heather Masseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00913459109753829391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post-17334578823740484622013-10-18T11:03:37.956-06:002013-10-18T11:03:37.956-06:00What is so funny about the whole vampire thing? I ...What is so funny about the whole vampire thing? I remember when Frank Langella played Dracula. Had the biggest crush on that Dracula! I have no way of knowing, but I wonder if that surprised the producers and such? I know it surprised the heck out of me. LOL<br /><br />I think this was back in the 80's? And there was George Hamilton's Vampire (he did a comic Zorro thing, too). Trying to remember what it was called, but he was totally a romantic (if comic) Dracula. <br /><br />I suspect that both NY and Hollywood trip over good ideas and then go, what just happened? LOLPaulinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06673963438671468441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post-33652042015032379182013-10-18T10:42:51.893-06:002013-10-18T10:42:51.893-06:00@Laurie Based on what I've learned, yes, there...@Laurie Based on what I've learned, yes, there was a perception of the two being mutually exclusive. It's understandable because at the time, vampires were still rooted in the horror genre. How could an undead Nosferatu-like character be a romance hero?<br /><br />When readers understood how authors like Christine Feehan were transforming vampire characters and showed how well they fit with some of the romance fantasies, readers became more interested.<br /><br />That said, it took many readers persuading other readers to take such a chance. Which is a way of underscoring the point I made above. NY didn't kick start PNR--authors and readers did.Heather Masseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00913459109753829391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post-45898266104689190422013-10-17T12:34:16.955-06:002013-10-17T12:34:16.955-06:00Sorry td = told. My iPhone keyboard likes to abbre...Sorry td = told. My iPhone keyboard likes to abbreviate words I spell out. :/L. A. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01198035351359321392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post-23609812666886620142013-10-17T12:32:20.147-06:002013-10-17T12:32:20.147-06:00I know as PNR was starting to blossom in the small...I know as PNR was starting to blossom in the smaller presses, NY was still in the mindset it wouldn't sell. But not sure if PNR authors had the added battle of being td Paranormal and Romance are mutually exclusive. Do you know if that was an issue, Heather?L. A. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01198035351359321392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post-33885640373147688852013-10-17T07:51:09.450-06:002013-10-17T07:51:09.450-06:00If NY publishing is full of all these brilliant pe...If NY publishing is full of all these brilliant people, why didn't they invent paranormal romance?Heather Masseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00913459109753829391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post-30603598327555055942013-10-16T16:54:03.492-06:002013-10-16T16:54:03.492-06:00Julie said "Especially since just like ladies...Julie said "Especially since just like ladies DO like tech/adventure/SF, there are lots of dudes who like romance, even if they wouldn't go see a movie that was billed as "a romance."<br /><br />Great point. And it's true Avatar--for one--is always billed as Science Fiction not Science Fiction Romance. We just know that it is. :)<br />L. A. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01198035351359321392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post-56348127622283749142013-10-15T14:49:09.733-06:002013-10-15T14:49:09.733-06:00Yes Laurie, and many people if not most go to movi...Yes Laurie, and many people if not most go to movies with their significant others, and many of those are heterosexual couples, so it would be silly to alienate one major gender if you expected to get a huge turnout. But I think in our society women are encouraged to be open-minded to (or at least tolerant of) "guy stuff," and it's acceptable for them to be interested in it, while men going to "women's movies" is much less likely and men are not taught that movies targeted at women are acceptable for them to watch and like. Basically you're going to have a better turnout for your movies if you use the advertising tactics and story elements that attract dude viewers.<br /><br />I absolutely think "fully realized romances" can and do (successfully!) take place in adventure/SF settings, but it's usually a matter of spin. Especially since just like ladies DO like tech/adventure/SF, there are lots of dudes who like romance, even if they wouldn't go see a movie that was billed as "a romance."Julie Sondra Deckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15755582329896793392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post-27913227608854950052013-10-15T04:46:22.718-06:002013-10-15T04:46:22.718-06:00Hi Julie. Thanks for your comments. Yes, I think y...Hi Julie. Thanks for your comments. Yes, I think you're right about the marketing aspect. But Hollywood at least seems to understand that both male and female audience members are what make their films hits. And in most cases (Battleship being the one probable exception in the examples I listed) I think the romantic elements were as big of a draw as the special effects. <br /><br />The general NY mindset still seems to be that women aren't interested in science, science fiction, innovative ideas, adventure or high tech, and that such elements can't be successfully blended with a fully realized romance. From my experience, that just isn't true. L. A. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01198035351359321392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post-78160494963044584992013-10-14T21:38:22.455-06:002013-10-14T21:38:22.455-06:00Yeah. I think people who make the decisions are pr...Yeah. I think people who make the decisions are probably still in the good-ol'-boy mode thinking something is "for girls" if it is focused on a romance, and that science fiction is "for boys." If you watch the advertising for the flicks you mentioned, it's war and action and screaming and faraway shots of exotic locations. And then you'll see one flash of a couple (always a man and a woman) kissing or embracing passionately, showing that there might be romance but it's just one of the normal spoils a hero gets in an adventure story.<br /><br />They're taught to aim and fire with a particular demographic in mind. They're pretty narrow-minded with regard to what groups actually like what, but it's no secret that they think movies appreciated by men are the ones that make the money, so even if a romantic aspect is front and center in the movie, they'll downplay it for the sake of getting their intended demographic to turn out.Julie Sondra Deckerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15755582329896793392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post-23147473860733402472013-10-14T13:02:34.961-06:002013-10-14T13:02:34.961-06:00I think what is important is to:
a) write great b...I think what is important is to:<br /><br />a) write great books<br /><br />b) write more great books<br /><br />Yes! L. A. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01198035351359321392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post-64059931634532374752013-10-14T11:47:35.186-06:002013-10-14T11:47:35.186-06:00Well, this was back in late 1990's, but from m...Well, this was back in late 1990's, but from my view as a READER, I think NY has always been behind. As far as I know it was/is the only business that does NO market research. They never ask readers what they want. They talk to booksellers, but not readers. <br /><br />In one way they are VERY like the movies, etc. They see a trend and jump on it, rather than seeing what's behind it. For instance, instead of realizing that Harry Potter went huge because it was new and fresh, they looked at it like: oh, readers want wizard books. <br /><br />You look at the tv series that hit big--then the season after there are lookalikes. <br /><br />As to your point about SFR not hitting it big w/o NY. Shades of Gray hit it big before NY. They jumped on that trend. Indies have been identifying trends and getting NY to pay attention since digital publishing first popped up on horizon.<br /><br />I just don't think NY leads anymore. <br /><br />I think what is important is to:<br /><br />a) write great books<br /><br />b) write more great books<br /><br />c) be strategic in how you market (you can do that now that we can see real numbers. For instance, I focused on RS, because my RS audio books were outselling my SFR. Then I got access to my numbers! If I had still been with publisher, I wouldn't have known about SFR selling better in time to switch gears. Now I'm working on new SFR. I will continue to work on RS, but making my SFR a priority.)<br /><br />If an author does what they'll need to do anyway, with or without NY, then you will build a following. It just takes time.<br /><br />And I believe that if we build it, maybe Hollywood will come. (Let's be honest here, though. Women and about women are bottom of pile in Hollywood. Women in Hollywood are going to have to change that. I had a project that won some awards and such, had a strong female lead. Was told I needed to change focus to male. Because "women don't watch this kind of movie." It is going to take a jackhammer to get into Hollywood. IMHO.)Paulinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06673963438671468441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post-71633195661166775152013-10-14T10:55:19.472-06:002013-10-14T10:55:19.472-06:00Great insights, Pauline. And very exciting to hear...Great insights, Pauline. And very exciting to hear your SFR is outselling your RS. Woot!<br /><br />I wonder what's behind the statement that "movies are different." I'm sure there are marketing studies at play there, but I'd love to hear the theory behind that statement. <br /><br />Are they saying people who go to movies don't read? Seems we're talking the same audience, but they're saying consumers who will shell out $15 for a SFR movie ticket won't pay $5.99 to read a SFR book.<br /><br />In NY's defense, they do have huge costs to publish a traditional print book so they want to realize a good return on their investment. That's completely understandable and it's just good business.<br /><br />The question is, because of the time it takes to accept, edit, package and market a book, have they fallen a few years behind the times on what is trending and not giving SFR books a chance that have the potential to find a substantial audience in the current SFR craze in pop culture?<br /><br />As Diane pointed out, NY isn't the only option for SFR authors, but the more SFR books get published by the Big 5, the better the shot at drawing a large enough audience that the genre becomes accepted by traditional publishing (IMHO).L. A. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01198035351359321392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post-50415894587999429832013-10-14T10:35:26.041-06:002013-10-14T10:35:26.041-06:00I agree, Diane. So many of us grew up with Star Tr...I agree, Diane. So many of us grew up with Star Trek and Star Wars and other SF with R icons. The concept of Science Fiction with romantic elements is something we embrace and it's difficult to understand why it's seen as mutually exclusive. But the general opinion in NY still seems to be that the two can't mix or don't mix well enough to find an audience. Fortunately there are exceptions to that line of thought. :)<br /><br />I think we're seeing a lot of self-published SFR because it's a long and difficult path to find a publisher. That's true of any genre, but seems to apply doubly to SFR.L. A. Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01198035351359321392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post-37042503442952931712013-10-14T10:29:12.522-06:002013-10-14T10:29:12.522-06:00I mentioned this to an editor WAY back when I made...I mentioned this to an editor WAY back when I made same comparison about romantic suspense with humor. She told me that movies were different and that seemed to end the discussion. <br /><br />The really great thing about today is that authors can now go around NY to find readers. My SFR is doing very well on its own. It's currently outselling my RS books, which surprised the heck out of me, because RS is the bigger market. <br /><br />I think the answer is that it is easier to become visible to SFR readers than it is with RS, because it is such a huge market. <br /><br />So, for the indie or small press author, you don't need the deep market penetration to do well. NY has deep pockets, but they also have deep expenses. So they need big numbers to make money.<br /><br />When I first started writing it was not possible to make a living as an author - sometimes WITH NY. <br /><br />I'm not supporting myself yet, but I am starting to support my business.Paulinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06673963438671468441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7808733415551134993.post-25937031952584543322013-10-14T10:15:34.888-06:002013-10-14T10:15:34.888-06:00I don't know why SFR isn't as acceptable i...I don't know why SFR isn't as acceptable in NYC as Hollywood. I'd hate to think it was sexist--like sci-fi readers are men and men don't like to read romance. What a myth! Isn't it interesting, though, that so many SFR books are self-published?Diane Burtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03754105332297068271noreply@blogger.com